Anti-conversion law sad chapter for the Christian community: Bengaluru Archbishop

'Tomorrow, will these leaders tell us that a person in an emergency should not take blood donation because the donor belongs to another community?'

As anti-minority incidents become more frequent and sentiments intense, Archbishop of Bengaluru Peter Machado tells DH’s Chiranjeevi Kulkarni that the models of harmony that people have evolved over a long time are being destroyed. Excerpts:

You had appealed to the Chief Minister to drop the anti-conversion bill, but it has since been passed by the Assembly. Did the government consider your views?

Let me begin by saying that it was a sad chapter for the Christian community. That the bill was powered by a majority community for whom we have done so much through our affordable education institutions led to a crisis of confidence and crisis of trust.

I can understand that there are some instances of what they see as a forceful or fraudulent type (of conversion). However, there are enough rules and regulations to take care of that. Can they ban all the traffic on the road because there were some accidents? We are law-abiding citizens. We ourselves do not encourage forceful and fraudulent conversions. The government can take action in such cases. But giving power to the fringe elements and taking action on the basis of their (claims)…It’s a sad affair.

In October last, you said you will investigate the 36 alleged instances of forced conversion. What have you found?

We have a legal board that inquired into all the 36 instances. We found that almost all of them were fake complaints. Of course, we couldn’t get the details for some incidents which involved personal matters. For example, the conversion aspect was added to a property dispute case. In another case, a girl eloped with a boy she was in love with, and conversion was added to it. Police told us that the ones who complained never came for questioning afterwards. They didn’t even appear in court. So, the cases just fizzled out. We understood that their (complainants’) intention was more to frighten the community, especially the villagers.

Are they frightening the community as a whole? There were elopements earlier too..

It’s a strange phenomenon. But love is blind. A Hindu man marrying a christian girl or vice versa can’t be illegal. In such cases, our first approach should be to respect their choice. Let us go to the extent of suggesting to the two adults that it would not be ideal for them to practice their own faith. After that, it’s their life. We should leave it to them.

Is the targeting of Christians a threat to Dalits, especially to those who converted to Christianity?

Yes. On the night the (anti-conversion) bill was passed, about 40 human rights groups came here and explained how it affects the lower strata of society. Women who are already not free to marry by choice will suffer. Secondly, Dalits will have no freedom to pursue education.

In most of our schools, we reserve a percentage of seats for Dalits, with the highest fee concessions. The bill basically sends a warning to Christians not to try to be charitable towards Dalits, and a warning to Dalits not to take our help. We will be in trouble if we help, as we have to provide a lot of explanations to help a Dalit. This will essentially deny them (Dalits) education.

It’s been a little over a month since a church in Mulbagal was demolished. What are your concerns in the aftermath?

On Good Friday, we remember the crucifixion of Jesus through the Way of Cross by taking out a procession to a hill. In some places, our people had taken for granted that they could use hillocks near the churches for the ritual and placed the cross on the hill. It has been a tradition for 50, 60 or even 100 years. Now, the government seems to have said it can’t be allowed. It started with Harobele, then Doddasagarahalli, Chikkaballapura and other places. Mulbagal was the sixth incident. We had documents to prove the legality of the structure. The tahsildar didn’t even give us a chance. We even requested her to allow us to shift the cross. But the entire structure was demolished in the middle of the night. There were more than 300 people who stood and cried. I had given strict instructions not to protest. We will follow the path of peace and take legal recourse.

The survey of churches is another issue. Is your administration ready to admit that there are some churches without the necessary documents?

There are about 15 clearances and permissions required for a church. But there might be some churches that may not have a certain permission. For example, a church built 100 years ago may not comply with rules which came much later. Secondly, there may be a violation of some aspects of the laws, like a bylaw for which we are ready to take corrective measures. If one intends to find fault, it can be found. The question is, why is the government targeting only one community? Why not apply this rule to all? My request to the government is: Help all religious structures by allowing them to take corrective measures.

Leaders in the UK, the US and other countries have talked about the persecution of minorities in India. Is there a threat perception within the community here?

In today’s digital world, every development reaches all corners of the world. Bengaluru has been the focus of the world due to its culture and development. When things go bad, naturally, that also becomes news. The UK and the US might have taken note of it because the incidents involve human rights. The world is coming and investing in Bengaluru not just for money. It’s because we are a centre of research, education, culture and harmony. But I’m sad to say that the government is cutting a very sorry figure in front of the world. There is an erosion of the culture of harmony. I am getting a lot of complaints from the members of the community. First, Christians were targeted, now it is Muslims.

Regarding language rights, the idea of making Hindi the lingua franca is getting a push...

A nation needs a link language. However, for the lack of other languages, English has already become a link language. I would be happy to learn Hindi or Kannada. Each language opens up a rich culture. However, I think no language should be imposed. Whenever it is imposed, we tend to hate it.

Meat shops were forced to shut down on Rama Navami…

This is a sad moment for our democracy. Food is a human right. I’m free to eat what I want. You have the freedom to reject it when I offer it to you. Why should someone dictate what to eat? First it was hijab, now it is meat and boycotting of shops and materials. Tomorrow, will these leaders tell us that a person in an emergency ward should not take blood donation because the donor belongs to another community, or prohibit a doctor from operating on a patient belonging to another community? Where are we going with this? We have lived for centuries in harmony. Look at the Karaga procession which goes to a Dargah first before going to other temples. In turn, the Muslims go to the temple first when they celebrate the feast. The people have evolved models of harmony which are being destroyed.

Some thinkers have pointed out that a weaker opposition has failed to protect the democratic rights of the minorities. What's your view?

I don’t like human rights to be mixed up with politics. Parties favour us some times and oppose us other times. That's not a good thing. I would say the good governance that prime minister (Narendra) Modi speaks of is very important. The party in power has to take care of the welfare of all the people. Mahatma Gandhi said the minorities require more care due to their vulnerability. To impose a uniform culture and uniform language is not possible. India is a multicultural society with every state having different languages each of which have different dialects. It’s a beautiful rainbow of colours. Unfortunately, political parties are encouraging smaller groups to put one community against another.

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