The Tuesday Interview | Can't create literature in India without caste, says Booker-longlisted Murugan

Author Perumal Murugan’s Pyre, an English translation of his Tamil novel Pukkuli, has found a place in the longlist for the International Booker Prize 2023. In an interview with DH’s ETB Sivapriyan, the author spoke on the honour, his writings, the caste menace, and why he participated in Rahul Gandhi’s Bharat Jodo Yatra. Excerpts:

Q: This is the first time that a Tamil novel has received such a global honour. How do you feel?

A: I believe this is just the beginning. The more Tamil novels are translated into English and reach a wider audience across the globe, the more they will get noticed and recognised with awards. The Tamil literary society slightly lagged in taking its creations to a larger audience, but things are changing now, and the global publishing market offers several opportunities for Tamil books to be translated into English. When literature from various regions and languages is published in key book markets like the US and UK, they get due recognition.

Q: Translation of books written in regional languages doesn’t happen often. Now that these works have begun to receive global recognition, do you think such development will inspire language authors to write more?

A: I don’t subscribe to the term regional language. Every language that is spoken in India is a regional language, be it Hindi, Malayalam, Assamese, or Bengali. I always call them Indian languages. Terming them regional languages gives the wrong impression that they could be dialects or ones without scripts. In the past, Indian classics meant those written in English by Indian authors such as Salman Rushdie and Arundhati Roy who have won Booker Prizes for their English novels. Only now, literature written in Indian languages and translated into English has begun to win prizes like Booker (Tomb of Sand by Gitanjali Shree in 2022). Modern literature and classics from all Indian languages should reach a wider audience through translations. Being longlisted or winning the Booker prize will certainly increase the interest in translating more Indian language literature, which will also inspire many young authors to start writing in their mother tongues.

Q: How do you see this recognition of Tamil literature vis-à-vis the language debate in the country that seeks to put Hindi ahead of every other language?

A: India doesn’t have a national language and that is what our Constitution says. Hindi is just one of the 22 official languages listed in the 8th Schedule of the Constitution. People conclude that Hindi is the national language just because our country’s name is India and the truth is Hindi isn’t spoken across India, contrary to popular opinion. Language politics shouldn’t hinder writers from accepting the truth and calling all languages spoken in India as Indian languages. As a writer, I will be happy if a book written in any Indian language gets translated into English or receives an award. On the otherhand, we should encourage more exchange of views and thoughts among Indian languages. I am unaware of what is happening in the literary field in Assamese, Gujarati, or other languages. The governments should encourage more exchanges between Indian languages. If I take the case of Tamil, several books from Kannada, Malayalam, and Bengali are being translated into Tamil, but the same is not the case with other languages. So, we should also focus on bringing together all Indian languages and giving them equal importance.

Q: Pyre is also about love and caste violence much like your other novels. Why is it that most of your novels revolve around caste? Is caste important an issue in Indian society?

A: I wrote the Tamil novel a decade ago, and I believe it would have been a huge hit if it was translated into English immediately. The truth is you cannot create literature in India without talking about caste. Caste is such an integral part of Indian society that no author can ignore it in his/her writings. If one does, they will only be doing a disservice to their readers.

Q: Is there any change in the way people view caste and inter-caste marriages?

A: Of course, things have changed with time. While people have begun to accept inter-caste marriages much more than in the past, the change isn’t to the magnitude one would expect. Even today, we see the majority of marriages happening within the caste. But things have changed because of rapid urbanisation. Couples who marry outside their caste now get a chance to lead a decent life if they migrate to cities. The problem is for couples who live in the same village or town and here is where we come across honour killings. The younger generation seems to have a better view of society. And as I said, caste is an integral part of Indian society. We see caste-based parties dominating the political landscape even today, and the situation is such that even mainstream parties cannot dump caste. Caste impacts their candidate selection, and this is also caste politics, in my opinion. The practice of caste is centuries old, and we cannot undo things within one century or two. It will take its own time. Changes are taking place, and I only wish it happens on a large scale.

Q: What do you think is needed to hasten the change?

A: We should ensure 100 per cent higher education and extend reservation benefits to inter-caste couples. Though there is a reservation for such people in a few categories, it isn’t enough. The governments should announce incentives and devise strategies for couples who denounce caste for their marriage. That is when we can witness a change of heart.

Q: Caste is still a major issue even in developed and progressive states like Tamil Nadu. How do we tackle this menace?

A: People who fought against caste like Periyar had a clear view of how to fight the menace. They said a practice that has been there for centuries together cannot be dismantled in one or two centuries. The current leaders should give a new dimension to the fight against caste and take it forward.

Q: You don’t usually participate in political protests or voice your opinion on political issues. What prompted you to join Bharat Jodo Yatra?

A: My government service (as a professor in a government college and later as principal of the institute) prevented me from voicing my opinion in public. As far as the Bharat Jodo Yatra is concerned, I participated because I was invited. More than anything, the goals of the yatra match my ideals. We have to fight the unitary society concept that is being pushed by some forces and the hatred that is being spread in society. Though Indian society was always divided by caste religion, people have been living in peace and harmony. These divisions must be bridged, not widened, or sharpened through spreading hate. Having said that, I don’t have the intention of participating in protests in the future because I believe writing is the best form of protest. I have been doing that for a long time.

Q: How are you dealing with fame as a writer? Have you ever thought about what life would have been if your book Mathorubhagan didn’t land in a row and created any controversy?

A: I am introverted by nature and that is the reason I kept away from public events in the past. My routine is to write and read. But the protests in 2015 against my novel prompted me to come out and speak for my fundamental right to express myself. I began appearing in public because my name had by then become synonymous with freedom of expression. I felt I have a moral obligation to speak against the ills of society in forums, not just through my works.

Q: All your novels are based in the western region of Tamil Nadu. Don’t you think it restricts you from reaching a wider audience?

A: Literature has always been about a particular region. People will read only when the plot is strong and the authors chose a particular region where they have lived or have knowledge about. But, people’s feelings are universal and that is why we read Latin American, Chinese and Russian novels and connect with them instantly. It is the plot and background that matters and I don’t have aproblem reaching a wider audience even though I focus on a particular region.

Q: What would you like to be remembered as — Perumal Murugan, the writer or teacher?

A: As an author, always. I am a writer basically and I took up a professor job to make my ends meet as writing wasn’t a very flourishing profession then. I published my first four books on my own. I want to be remembered as an author. But that doesn’t mean that I didn’t like my stint as a professor. I loved teaching and my students have written a book about me and I have also penned my experiences with my students. I sought VRS only because I wasn’t very happy with the administrative work as a principal.