Important to stop BJP from winning to save democracy: Sitaram Yechury
The country has entered into another election season with West Bengal, Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Assam and Puducherry getting ready to hit the polling booths. The polls are crucial for Congress, the BJP and the Left, as the results could have an impact on their future prospects. DH’s Shemin Joy spoke to CPI(M) General Secretary Sitaram Yechury on the political situation in the country.
What is the significance of these elections? What impact will these elections have?
The entire world is now recognising that Indian Parliamentary democracy is being reduced into an "electoral autocracy". Using victories in elections is a way of legitimising the disruption of democracy by the BJP. So stopping the BJP from winning elections is an important element in the overall battle in defending secular democracy in India. That is the importance of these elections.
In all these states, the BJP should not be allowed to form the government. Apart from all other reasons, the question of saving democracy is of paramount importance. Our objective to ensure the defeat of the BJP in all these Assembly elections.
You have already mentioned that saving democracy is one of the main themes of these elections? What are the other major issues?
People's livelihood issues, the misery that has been heaped on the people by the BJP government in the past one year, the handling of Covid-19 pandemic, lockdown, economic recession, the loot of national assets, large-scale privatisation, curtailment of liberty, abrogation of labour laws, farmers' protest and price rise are among the main issues. There are authoritarian attacks on democratic rights and civil liberties. There is a 76% increase in UAPA cases. It is a whole package of the destruction of the existing Constitutional democracy. The economic recession began much before Covid-19. The BJP’s whole effort is to convert the secular democratic country into their version of a rabidly intolerant, theocratic, fascistic Hindutva Rashtra. In the process, people's daily life is becoming more and more miserable. So the immediate issues are people's livelihood issues.
These elections are very crucial for the Left as well as the CPI(M). The lone state where the Left is in power, Kerala, is going to polls. What are the prospects of the CPI(M)-led Left Democratic Front (LDF) in Kerala? Are you confident of the Left returning to power bucking the trend of change in government every five years?
We are poised to buck the four-decade-long trend. One of the biggest indicators is the LDF sweeping the local body polls in December last year. That reflects the people's mood, appreciation or the positive assessment of the work done by the LDF during the course of the last five years. Apart from the Covid-19 pandemic, the last five years also saw the state, unfortunately, witnessing a number of natural disasters. On all these occasions, the state government's prompt response and the role it played earned a lot of support from the people. People feel that this is a government that is working in the interests of the people.
Another factor is in comparison to what the Opposition is doing. The Congress is in disarray. The Congress, which says it is taking an anti-BJP plank, is playing in tandem with the BJP on the Sabarimala temple issue and gold smuggling case among others. They are actually going with the BJP while claiming to be anti-BJP. All these factors put together, LDF is confident of retaining power.
But the CPI(M) are embroiled in controversies and allegations, including the gold smuggling case, Sprinkler, Life Mission case etc, in the past one year. How do you respond?
This is the constant theme, a trademark of the BJP. Anywhere, in any state where elections are due and where the incumbent government has to be discredited, they are using central agencies like the CBI, ED etc and that is what we are seeing now. So this game of the BJP also suffers from a total lack of credibility. As far as the gold smuggling case is concerned, everybody knows that the entire issue of smuggling is under the Centre.
Why is it that after the BJP came to power that such gold smuggling cases are happening and why in Thiruvananthapuram? Where is the lapse? These are the questions people are asking. So, the BJP wants to use it as a pretext to target the LDF.
So you are confident that people will not fall for such allegations?
Absolutely. People are seeing this all over the country how the CBI and the ED are being used to target political opponents, to organise defections coupled with money power. Now there is a new 'trishul' -- the CBI, ED and money power. They use all these to intimidate the Opposition.
In Kerala, we have witnessed several protests by the cadre against the candidates chosen by the CPI(M). These are unprecedented in a cadre party like CPI(M). Does it mean CPI(M) is weakening organisationally?
It is natural that there is resentment when changes are made. We dropped some important ministers and leaders because fielding them is against the core principle of not giving more than two terms to a person. This is the principle the whole country is aware of. One example is my case itself where I did not get a third term in Rajya Sabha. We are a party that has certain values and principles which we seek to implement.
Second, this is that we should also understand the reality of India. Seventy per cent of India's population is below 40 years and if you want to be a people's party, that generation must be re-elected in the government. You will find the age composition of the CPI(M) to be the lowest among all the major parties. We are accepting that reality. So changes will happen and when it happens, there will be some resentment, some disquiet. As far as people who are not contesting now, there is no discontentment among them. This is not a big organisational problem.
It is not just the cadre but the general public are also surprised at the omission of leaders like Finance Minister Thomas Isaac etc. So what prompted the CPI(M) to take such a decision?
The general public has a certain appreciation of the work done by them. So they expect that they will be continuing. The point is, in our party, there is no lack of talent or capability. One must also understand this kind of process is also important for the democratic process so that vested interests don't develop. No other parties follow this principle.
Some other parties in Kerala are also now implementing such practices like dropping leaders who contest frequently. What is your take?
The Left presence in Kerala has impacted the character of the other political parties. The character of a party in Kerala will be very different from its character elsewhere in the country. The culture of politics in Kerala has put all of them on a different, better footing.
You have said that Congress in Kerala is working in tandem with the BJP. At the same time, CPI(M) has electoral understanding in West Bengal, Tamil Nadu and Assam. Does this create confusion among voters that you work with Congress outside but is fighting them in Kerala?
Not at all. This is not the first time that this sort of thing is happening. In the last over 30 years, we have been fighting Congress in Bengal, Tripura and Kerala among other states. Look at 2004, 61 Left candidates were elected to the Lok Sabha out of which 57 defeated the Congress nominees. But then we supported the Manmohan Singh government. What is the interest for the country and the people? Today's interest is to not allow the BJP to win. What is the best way not to allow the BJP to win? That we will be different in different states. In Tamil Nadu, we are going with the DMK. In West Bengal, the Left Front is spearheading the fight along with other parties. In Assam, the Congress-AIDUF is the main plank in which other parties have joined. In Kerala, the LDF is the main coalition to defeat the BJP. Congress is acting in tandem with the BJP in Kerala. That is something they have to answer.
In Bengal, there is an allegation that the Left is weakening the fight against the BJP and actually helping them by opposing the Trinamool Congress. It is said that the Left is creating trouble for Opposition unity. How do you respond?
It is completely wrong. Why did the BJP gain in the 2019 Lok Sabha elections? The main reason was that the votes against the Trinamool went entirely to the saffron party. In 2019, Congress and the Left were fighting separately. Last time, the voters who are by and large secular did not have a secular option that can defeat the Trinamool and so voted for the BJP. With the Congress and Indian Secular Front entering into an electoral understanding with the Left, this combine is now emerging as a credible alternative to muster in the anti-incumbency votes of the Trinamool, which is by and large secular vote. So if the Congress, Trinamool Congress and others get together in the name of fighting the BJP, it is the surest recipe for the BJP to win. Because all the discontent against the Trinamool will then go to BJP. So are we helping the BJP or defeating them? This argument is based on the premise that politics is based on arithmetic.
Are you saying it will be a three-cornered contest in West Bengal?
Yes, it will be a three-cornered fight to the disadvantage of the BJP.
How sure are you about the Left improving its prospects in Bengal?
We will improve. It also could be a hung assembly. In case of a hung assembly, I am for sure you cannot rule out the possibility of the Trinamool Congress joining hands with the BJP given its track record in the past. It has gone with the BJP on a number of occasions, including after Godhra communal violence and the present Chief Minister becoming a Cabinet Minister in A B Vajpayee government. Given that track record, we don’t know what will happen. So, this whole thing of fighting the BJP that the Trinamool is doing, in the context of a hung assembly, how that will happen, given their track record? I won’t rule that out.
In case of a hung assembly, will the Left and the Congress support Trinamool Congress? Is that an option?
If the Trinamool Congress wanted to control the elements that were attacking the Left and Congress cadres, it would have done in the past. The Trinamool is much more comfortable with the BJP. They have been, in the past. They are the ones who brought the BJP into Bengal, in the alliance. They served under the BJP Prime Ministers.
So, are you saying that you are confident of your electoral prospects in Bengal compared to the 2016 and 2019 polls?
Yes, definitely.
As we head for another set of elections, the imprint of Congress is reducing nationally. How important are these elections for Congress?
It is very important. See Kerala now. A very senior leader like PC Chacko quitting and all these rampant things like infighting and groupism etc. For Congress, in order to regain its pan-Indian image, it has to perform very well in these elections. That is important for it. But how well it will do it or not is their internal matter, that they will have to decide. But it is definitely an important election for them.
Post May 2, what are you expecting, politically?
A better India. Because of the results of BJP losing, and therefore, a better India.
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