The Tuesday Interview | 'This election is about choosing the future of India'

Democracy is under attack globally, not just in India. Authoritarian forces are using a largely pliant media effectively for propaganda, assuming that people are gullible, Pitroda says

Often credited with laying the foundation of India's telecommunications revolution in the 1980s, inventor-entrepreneur Sam Pitroda has donned several roles, including that of an adviser to Manmohan Singh. A close confidante of Rahul Gandhi, Pitroda is currently the chief of the Indian Overseas Congress. The engineer-policymaker has strong views on India, democracy and the ruling party, some of which he has expressed in his new book The Idea of Democracy, published recently by Penguin. In an interview with DH’s Rashmi Vasudeva, he spoke about why he thinks democracy is in danger the world over and how 2024 will shape the future of India. Excerpts:

Do you think 2024 will prove to be democracy's biggest test in decades?

Democracy is under attack globally, not just in India. Authoritarian forces are using a largely pliant media effectively for propaganda, assuming that people are gullible. This has less to do with gullibility and more to do with technology, affluence and the hankering for the good life. People have lost touch with fundamental values; they want instant gratification and do not want to go through any rigour or pain. No pain, no character. And it is really character that builds democracy.

What is the impact of a financially as well as ethically wobbly media on the health of a democracy?

There is no national conversation, a grave necessity today. No one is asking questions. A large part of the media is being controlled with money and political power and some journalists work like agents of the ruling disposition. That said, there are capable reporters too. This is an age where you have to find your own truth. You cannot take truth for granted any more. However, people are not digging deep — they are looking at tweets and WhatsApp messages and coming to conclusions.

Barely a month to the elections and the Opposition parties seem to be in disarray...

The Opposition is in disarray from the viewpoint of an authoritarian regime. Disarray is good for democracy but here we want the Opposition to also be authoritarian. So where's the difference? There ought to be discourse and disagreement — that is what democracy is all about.

Do you think the revelations about electoral bonds will make any real dent in voting patterns?

People have to realise that the 2024 elections are the most important in the modern history of India. This is not about Modi versus Rahul or anyone else. This is not about BJP versus Congress. This is about the future of India and the kind of nation we want to build. You have lived in a free country; do you want your children to do so? Do you want them to be attacked for what they eat? Beaten up because of whom they pray to or whom they fall in love with? Each voter will have to realise that he is voting not for himself but for his children and grandchildren; that he is voting for inclusion, diversity and equal rights for all — for the idea of India itself.

You have earlier questioned the credibility of EVMs. Are you saying they are rigged?

I am talking not just about EVMs but the EVM system which can be manipulated with the Voter Verified Paper Audit Trail (VVPAT). I want to make sure that the vote am casting is the vote you are counting. Why cannot verification and counting of the VVPAT slips be the standard practice? If there is mistrust, why is it difficult to breach that trust deficit and end whispers of manipulation? Prove me wrong and strengthen public faith in elections!

Don't you think Rahul Gandhi's appeal to one's sense of honour, truth and justice is idealistic, lofty even, and lacks a mass emotional connect?

I won't call it idealism — emphasising truth and promoting love is not idealism, it is a way of life. 'Manavta' is bigger than Hindutva and that is what people need to understand. Everyone has advice for Rahul Gandhi but no one wants to listen. We may have not yet figured out how to build a deeper emotional connect but that should not stop us from trying!

You have been quoted earlier as saying that it bothers you that a temple construction is a national issue. But we have always been a country of emotive people, greatly moved by religion and identity. Are we not hardwired to make this a big issue?

I only ask people to be rational and scientific along with being emotional. You cannot be emotional about everything. I am neither against emotions nor have any problem with a person being religious but this must remain a personal matter. Do not impose your idea of religion on me! My wife is very religious and I am not and we have been married for 58 years without much trouble and confusion. I will also blame social media here for amplifying fringe voices, giving the impression that everyone is uniformly reactive.

You write at length about redesigning democracy for the future. Can you tell us briefly how to do so?

In today's democracy, the winner takes all. It is not fair and needs a deep rethink. Just because you are elected by, say 40 per cent of the vote, you ought not to have the licence to rule everyone. Secondly, there should be no corporate funding for elections. With corporate funding, you are essentially declaring that only the rich can participate in this game. Funding (with rules and regulations) must come from only the individuals who vote.

Intrusive spyware, deepfakes and meddling in elections with the use of AI are big issues today. But you seem to have a counterpoint about the use of AI to better democracy. Can you elaborate?

AI, like any other technological tool, is a double-edged sword. If you can use AI to make a deepfake video, I can use the very same technology to find the truth about the video. I am all for AI — it will simplify our lives, help us in health and education, to mention just two, and make us into self-learners. We need to put in place rules certainly — we missed that bus with social media. It is the business model of social media that has created this misinformation monster — we can do better with AI if we wake up in time.

Do you think people understand the value of democracy? Often you hear talk of India "needing" a benign dictatorship...

No, they don't and so they suffer for it. This is how Hitler started — as a benign dictator and look where it led Germany to. This year, people have to figure out the path they want India to take. Do we want to live in a country where freedom, equality, diversity, inclusion and love are celebrated? I believe the hour has come for all of us to ask this of ourselves.