Even ready to withdraw nominees for AAP tie-up: Chacko

Delhi is in election mode and all set for a triangular contest between Congress, BJP and AAP. AAP and Congress tried to stitch an alliance to ensure BJP's rout in Delhi's seven seats but were unsuccessful. Now, both blame each other and fear that this could eventually lead to repeat of 2014 results when BJP won all the seven seats.

DH's Shemin Joy spoke to Congress' Delhi in-charge P C Chacko on the evolving political arithmetic in the national capital.

Delhi is witnessing a triangular contest. Where do you place Congress? What are Congress chances?

In fact, this time we wanted to avoid a triangular fight. We couldn't. Why did we want to avoid a triangular fight?

After the 2014 election in which Narendra Modi came to power and in 2015 Assembly elections when Arvind Kejriwal came to power in Delhi, the electorate has been fractured. Congress is relegated to the third position. BJP or AAP was number one in seats. Congress was third. Congress went down to around 9.7% vote share in Assembly polls while Kejriwal won 52.5% and 67 out of 70 seats. BJP came second even though they got only three seats with 35% vote share. Congress, which was till then the main party, did not win a seat.

From there, in the past four years, we could build the party and we improved to 21.09% vote share in the municipal corporation polls. This is the last public opinion available in Delhi. From 52.5%, AAP came down to 26.23%. BJP still retains the same between 35-36% votes.

At present, with this vote share will win all the seats if anti-BJP votes are divided between Congress and AAP. The initiative for an alliance in Delhi came from the AAP. We responded to that. I took the permission from Congress president Rahul Gandhi to talk to AAP. Our people in Delhi, including Sheila Dikshit, was not in favour of any kind of understanding with AAP.

The Congress leaders in Delhi think that Kejriwal is an undependable person and that by fluke he has come to power and it was better not to go with him because his is not a stable party. Fight, establish the party, we may lose one election, but the next election we can come up -- this is the theory of a section of Delhi Congress people. But 2019 is not an election to fight, it is an election to win. What we need to do is to defeat Modi.

Then what went wrong?

I suggested to Rahul Gandhi that the Congress people in Delhi were not agreeing but I am in favour of an alliance in Delhi. The Congress president agreed. I sent a message to Kejriwal, who replied that he was busy campaigning all over India and is deputing Sanjay Singh for negotiations. We had two rounds of discussions. I suggested to him you have 26% vote share and we have 22%, all other records are old history. You don't have that 54% votes which you had in 2015.

There was a by-election in Rajouri Garden where we came second and AAP came third with its candidate even losing his security deposit. So I suggested if we fight each other, BJP will win. If we make a pro rata division of seats on the basis of 2017 vote share, AAP can get four seats and we can get three. Myself and Sanjay Singh agreed on this. Congress and its president sincerely wanted to avoid a triangular contest in Delhi.

Kejriwal then called a meeting of party leaders. In that meeting, he decided that we cannot give Congress three seats, we cannot have an alliance in Delhi alone and we want an alliance in Haryana, Chandigarh and Goa too. Sanjay Singh came back to me and I said, you are relevant only in Delhi. AAP doesn't have even 4% votes in Haryana. Not that alone. In Haryana, our political opponent is Om Prakash Chautala's INLD, which is predominantly a Jat party. Then there is Jannayak Janata Party (JJP), which has split from INLD. From our side, Bhupinder Singh Hooda is a prominent Jat leader. We cannot have a coalition with JJP, which the AAP was suggesting.

In the beginning itself, I had said there is no alliance in Haryana. Even if we try, we will not succeed and Congress will go alone in Haryana. Kejriwal did not agree. He said he want alliance in Chandigarh, Haryana, Delhi and Goa. Except in Delhi, I said, AAP is an insignificant party. More than that, we two cannot win and we need to rope in a third party to win. That is not possible there. So we will go with the 4:3 formula in Delhi. He backed out. Sanjay Singh said I am sorry, my leader is not agreeing. This is what happened in Delhi. In Delhi, we really wanted to avoid a triangular fight. Because of the non-cooperation of the AAP, we could not come together. Now the net result is that it is risky for Congress, it is risky for AAP and benefit for BJP. Unfortunately, it happened despite our best efforts.

Withdrawal of nominations of candidates in Delhi is on Apr 26. Is there any chance of alliance before April 26? Can we expect some surprise?

In fact, we are still ready. Up to April 26, if Kejriwal is coming with a sincere wish, we will even think of that. We have to withdraw four people. Who are those people? It includes Sheila Dikshit and other senior people. It is not easy for us. But we want to defeat Modi in the 2019 elections. I haven't said this till now, I am saying it today that up to April 26, we are ready. But I know for certain that Kejriwal do not want to have a coalition. Today, I sincerely doubt the intention of Kejriwal. Because three months ago, there was a statement from Kejriwal that if BJP gives full statehood, his party will support BJP in all the seven seats. This is on record. Then, where is the ideological difference? Where is the commitment? Where is the anti-fascist stand?

Why did AAP then got into a discussion with Congress?

They wanted to use Delhi as a lever to get some seats in Haryana. See people like Yogendra Yadav and other prominent people were with Kejriwal earlier but have left him now. There was a time when they had a good following in Haryana and Punjab. In Punjab, AAP has split into three. Very good leaders who were with AAP have left them already. So they want to get a foothold in Haryana using Delhi as a lever. Congress does not want that to happen. Nobody will accept that. Probably the only place in India where AAP and Congress can together defeat BJP is Delhi. In Delhi, they are not ready. We are ready.

Are you sure that your senior leaders will withdraw on April 26 if there is an alliance?

We will do that. But today we are getting tremendous support after the announcement of seven candidates. Minority community leaders have met me in the past couple of days and have told me that they were with AAP in the last elections but this time, Rahul Gandhi is fighting Modi and we will support Congress. Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes and minorities are coming back to Congress. Our traditional support, which we had lost, is coming back. This is the right time to fight on our own. We may win two-three seats, at least we will come second in all the seven seats. This is the right time to fight for the long term interest of the party. But more important, however, is the 2019 elections where we want to defeat Modi. For that, we are ready for any compromise.

You have chosen experienced and senior leaders in all seats except for a new face in Olympian boxer Vijender Singh. What is the thought behind it?

Congress was ruling Delhi for 15 years. Today's Delhi, which you see, is a modern city and it was built during the Congress regime. However, on some issues like power and water, we could not attend properly. Whether in unauthorised colonies or slum clusters, people were suffering. It could have been resolved easily by the government. We built highways, metro, over-bridges etc, there are many infrastructure facilities which were created. The credit goes to Dikshit and her government.

There were some minus points for which we suffered in one election. But now people are looking back at Dikshit. A stable government was provided by her in Delhi. Today, you see Kejriwal fighting with Modi every day, sitting on dharna in LG residence. Kejriwal hardly got the time to rule the state. People today think that Dikshit and Congress is better than Modi. This is an opportunity for us. Even though we did not choose, we did not prefer, it happened that Congress has to fight this election on our own. There also, we are not disappointed because we can do better.

Vijender is an interesting selection. Why Vijender? What was the thought behind this?

We first thought of Olympian wrestler Sushil Kumar for the seat. Then we had Vijender also. Both of them are from Haryana. They are from Congress background and it is not that they are joining the party now. They were in constant touch with the Congress president and they are Congress-minded people. They are ideologically committed to Congress even though they are sportspersons. So they were interested in fighting the elections. Not that we just roped in them.

Vijender is from Haryana and the entire border of Haryana and Delhi constitutes the South Delhi constituency. It has a substantial Jat, Gujjar community votes. We suggested that and he was happy to accept that.

Dikshit was said to be reluctant to fight but Kapil Sibal was keen. But Congress chose Sheila but said no to Sibal. Why?

We wanted Dikshit to fight. She was reluctant. But Congress wanted Sheila Dikshit to fight the election because she is a name in Delhi. So we wanted the team of Delhi be led by Dikshit. That was Rahul Gandhi's decision. So in the committee, Rahul Gandhi said, Sheila-ji you will have to fight. She was reluctant. She refused. But Rahul Gandhi said, no, you will have to fight. That is how she came. She is happy now and fully involved. Sibal has three-and-half years more to go in Rajya Sabha.

The Congress Working Committee had taken a decision not to field sitting MLAs or Rajya Sabha MPs. There are exceptions. But the issue was whether a Rajya Sabha MP with a three-and-half-year term left, should he fight? Also, we cannot win that Rajya Sabha seat in re-election too. So Rahul Gandhi decided that Sibal should not contest and he happily agreed.

Will we see Rahul Gandhi and Priyanka Gandhi campaigning in Delhi?

Yes, they have agreed to campaign. There will be road shows by Rahul Gandhi and Priyanka Gandhi. These road shows are being planned to cover all the seven seats. There will be public meetings by Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi also. Campaigners will include cricketer-turned-politician Navjyot Singh Sidhu, actor-turned-politician Shatrughan Sinha, Punjab Chief Minister Captain Amarinder Singh and leaders from other states, including from the south.

What are the prospects for Congress in Delhi?

Out of seven seats, I personally feel that AAP will be wiped out in all the seven seats and Congress will be fighting with BJP. Only yesterday, we have announced our candidates. We have candidates who are far better than others. So we will go full throttle and we will see whether we can win a few seats.

What is the difference you see in 2014 and 2019 election?

It was Modi wave in 2014 and there was no politics then. Somebody who came all on a sudden, giving wild promises and people were taken for a ride. This has happened very rarely in politics. Jobs for 10 crore people, bringing back black money -- people thought why did the previous governments did not do. People knew that Manmohan Singh government had made many contributions to Indian economy and their living standards were improved. But when Modi promised things in a very powerful manner that reached the hearts of people, they believed him. But in five years time, they found out that all these were false promises.

Today, Modi is a typical example of broken promises. People today believe that he is completely an undependable person. Also, knowing Rahul Gandhi's potential, the BJP deliberately started a campaign against him, calling him names. Rahul Gandhi's personality is now coming out. Today, Modi's image is going down and Rahul Gandhi's is going up. Today, youngsters in the country are waiting with a hope that Rahul Gandhi will be the future leader. We think this election is going to be just the reverse of 2014 elections.