Those close to party have quit; we will never betray Congress, says Kapil Sibal

Senior Congress leader Kapil Sibal says the group of 23 leaders, who wrote to Congress President Sonia Gandhi in August last year demanding sweeping reforms in the party, will never betray Congress. In an interview with Anand Mishra and Sagar Kulkarni, Sibal reminds the Congress that those close to the party have quit, but he and his colleagues remain staunch Congressmen.

Why does Kapil Sibal get angry?

When was I angry? What did I say that you felt was a display of anger? Tendulkar had written a play on anger. But I do not recall any example about me being angry.

Are you okay with the manner in which the party is functioning?

I think if you look at any movement, any party, any progress of any movement, any institution, any nation, you can never be happy. Because institutions must evolve, nations must evolve. New challenges come in the way. So, it is not a question of my being unhappy or happy with something. Happiness means status quo. Nobody wants a status quo in life, even in a family there is no such thing as a status quo. We have to move forward. I am not unhappy with anybody. Nor am I unhappy with the party. I just want that as a party, Congress should gain the same kind of prominence it had in the past because it is capable of it. It has individuals that can achieve that and the context of the government which is at the helm of affairs in India, a government that has almost destroyed our Constitutional edifice, it is one party that can actually challenge the government. It is the only other national party which has a footprint all over the country.

Is Congress tottering and pulling its allies behind? We saw it in Bihar polls.

This is a matter of perspective. If you look at the Congress party only in the context of what happened yesterday, it is true that we are not in the position where we were back when Mrs Gandhi was in power or Mr Narasihma Rao was in power or 2004 or even 2009 when we were in power. Yes, since those days, there has been a situation where we have not performed all that well. But it is a question of evolution. There comes a time in the history of a political party, history of the nation. There are ups and downs. That doesn’t mean there is an element of permanence in that.

You mentioned the status quo? Have things moved on since December 19 last year when Congress President Sonia Gandhi met a group of letter writers?

I did not mention the status quo in the context of the Congress party. All I said was, nobody wants a status quo because things change and evolve. As far as what has happened between December and now .. some things have happened, somethings have not happened. But I am sure that the Congress party will emerge stronger in the years to come. As far as we are concerned, we are those Congressmen who have never, will never, betray the party. We stand for the party, we stand for a strong Congress, and I do believe that nobody should have any doubts about that. Yes, there are some things that have happened. There has been an announcement that there will be an election for the post of the President. On the Congress platform, it was also stated that there would also be elections to the CWC – as and when they happen, I do not know. So, that is the movement forward. But, Congress will do many more things to rejuvenate itself.

Do you see an alternative leadership emerging in Congress?

I think it is not fair for me to comment on these issues at this moment for the reason that I do not know what is going to happen in the future, who is going to stand as a candidate for the office of the president of the party, what will be a consensus that will evolve. Will there be multiple candidates who would stand, or one person who would stand or more than one. This is something I cannot predict at this point in time. It is not fair for me to comment. But, I don’t think, as I said to you, can afford not to elect a leader. And Congress party has announced that they will have elections in June.

Also read: Those close to party have quit; we will never betray Congress, says Kapil Sibal

How do you see Congress prospects in this round of election? What is the future for Congress? Do regional parties appear to have an upper hand in this round?

That is not true. It depends on which state is going to elections. Congress has won in several states in the recent past also. Historically, we have not had a presence in West Bengal for a long period of time. We have not had a presence in Tamil Nadu for a long period of time. In Kerala, we are the only alternative even now. I don’t think you are right when you say Congress is losing. Yes, it is true that Congress has lost the ground. But, don’t write an epitaph of a party, which perhaps in the history of the world, through the national movement will be remembered as something that tells you about the strength of Indian democracy and the ability of the Congress and the people to rise. I am sure that will happen again. You are right, however, in some of the states in the southern part of the country where we had great presence, we are no longer too relevant a factor, like in Andhra and in Telangana.

What are the four major problems Congress faces right now? It has been seven years since you lost the Lok Sabha elections.

If you start asking me questions like this in the midst of an election, I don’t think that would be proper. Today, it is our duty to strengthen the party, for it to win or to get the maximum number of seats wherever it is contesting. I don’t think we should be talking about problems at this stage. All we should be talking about is how to win the next election rather than problems in the Congress party. It would be unfair for me to answer such questions. We have said what we had to say in the recent past. We do not want to reiterate any of that. It is our duty today as Congressmen – whether as star campaigners or whether we have lost our lustre – we should stand together to support the Congress party.

None of the G-23 have been drafted for campaign in West Bengal?

It is for the party to decide.

Also read: Ahead of Assembly polls, dissenters say Congress is weak

BJP has drafted senior leaders

They do a lot of things Congress should not do as far as BJP is concerned. There are a lot of things historically that we have not done. Display of massive resources, buying of people, open defections through all kinds of machinations that the BJP does is not something that Congress should do. But, whatever the space we have in West Bengal, we should certainly try and win as many seats as possible. But it is for the party to decide who they think will be in a position to persuade the people of West Bengal.

How do you see BJP performing in these states?

I am no psephologist. But I think in West Bengal, Mamata Banerjee will retain power. I think we are going to give them a big fight in Assam. You may see some surprise verdict also. In Kerala, every five year the government changes, so we hope for that. In Tamil Nadu, I think the DMK would win hands down and the Congress has never had a substantial presence in Tamil Nadu for several years.

In Puducherry, has Congress moved to the BJP lock, stock and barrel?

That is the result of the muscle and money power the BJP has. They have toppled elected governments by those means, which are clearly unconstitutional. Which is why Congress is the only party that can fight them in the near future.

Does it worry you that in Madhya Pradesh you won but lost power? In Gujarat, where you fared well, you are again in disarray? What is wrong?

I think you seek answers from Congress people, but you should seek answers from the BJP. I don’t think since Independence, we have had a political party that has dismantled all constitutional structures. That has imposed upon our country a de-facto emergency. That has bought over mainstream media big time. That brooks no opposition and uses investigating agencies to silence people. That has taken channels of communication. That is perhaps the richest party in the world today which uses money power like never before. But you can attribute all this to the dismantling of our democratic structures more than to the weaknesses of the Congress. How do you fight a system that mouths principles of democracy but destroys it from within. Members of our elected government have been bought by sheer money power.

A section of the Congress believes that some of your utterances in Jammu actually helps these same forces that you are so worried about

That is completely untenable what you are stating. In Jammu, if you look at any of our speeches, it was only to say that we must strengthen the party. It is false propaganda to say that any of us were directly or indirectly wanting to help the BJP. Some uncharitable remarks were made against one of my colleagues. He is the one who said – when asked whether he would join the BJP – only when black snow will fall in Kashmir. So, I think that is a bit unfair. I can only say this, many people who have been exceptionally close to the party in recent times, have resigned from the party, while those of us who are perceived, unfortunately in a manner in which we should not be perceived, remain staunch Congressmen.

Where do you see hope for Congress to revive?

It will reemerge. People will turn against this dispensation and the Congress will be the Centre of gravity which will attract those people. We are the only one who have a national footprint. We therefore must support Congress in every possible way to regain its prime position in politics of this country.

Do you see such things happening?

Yes, I do.

Are you hopeful?

I am exceptionally hopeful. Not just hopeful, I am convinced.

Do you think there is a lack of clarity on ideology in the Congress party? There was this A K Antony committee report, then the ‘Janeudhari Brahmin’ episode and now this tie-up with ISF in West Bengal?

I don’t think this is the time to deal with those issues. Nor is it the time to talk about the various manifestations of desh bhakti. Whether you should put a national flag after every one kilometre. Or whether to do this kind of bhoomi pujan or that kind of bhoomi pujan. I don't think democratic institutions are strengthened. What we need is transparency, accountability, honesty, a sense of sacrifice, a feeling that we are a nation and every citizen is central to the forward march of the nation, there should be no discrimination, that institutions should play their role as constitutionally envisaged. We should think of the nation, rather than talk about issues that are going to do no good as far as the people of India are concerned.

Do you think the farmers' protests will have a political impact?

Discontent with the BJP is widespread and the impact of that will be seen in the 2024 elections.